The Hindu
Two killed in Mumbai
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3757117.ece
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3755537.ece
http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/other-states/article3772324.ece
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/article3758393.ece
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article3772309.ece?homepage=true
Indian Express
Sunday 12th Aug.
antiassam-riot-two-dead-52-hurt-as-protest-turns-violent
I saw crowd tossing cop in the air
flareup cops look at big conspiracy
police probing if violence was a big conspiracy
13th Aug
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/attack-was-planned-say-injured-constables/987548/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/both-victims-died-of-bullet-injuries/987549/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/23-rioters-sent-to-police-custody-till-aug-19/987505/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mumbai-group-got-nod-to-hold-peaceful-protest-of-1-000/987507/
14th Aug
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/uphold-the-law/987898/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/assam-politicians-orchestrated-mumbai-violence-investigators/987830/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mumbai-violence-web-provocative-content-including-gujarat-riot-had-60-lakh-hits/988048/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pune-attacks-against-northeast-students-too-provoked-by-assam-video-say-police/988047
15 Aug
http://cdn.indianexpress.com/news/what-went-wrong/988587/
TOI
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Two-killed-as-protest-over-Assam-riots-turns-violent-in-Mumbai/articleshow/15449582.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Inflammatory-SMSs-pictures-behind-rioting/articleshow/15469062.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Mumbai-violence-Police-to-examine-riot-footage-captured-by-BMC-cameras/articleshow/15503586.cms
http://www.thehoot.org/web/Why-do-they-hate-us-/6167-1-1-22-true.html
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_deploying-female-cops-to-control-mob-invites-criticism_1728136
While the right to protest is a democratic right, the duty and responsibility of peaceful protest must lie with not just the authorities but responsibility must also be taken by organizers. (Justice Srikrishna in his report on the 1992-1993 violence, had, relying on the earlier recommendations of the Justice DP Madon Commission report that were never implemented, recommended that deposits need to be obtained from organizers of protests to ensure that damages for any losses could be recovered from this deposit). We suggest that the Mumbai police immediately apply this recommendation.Press Release of CJP
If I remember right, they insisted on this deposit from IAC last December.Here it is
The IAC has to pay the MMRDA Rs 7.78 lakh for using the 20,000 square foot ground at Bandra-Kurla Complex and the 10,000 square feet parking area, and a refundable security deposit of Rs 5.29 lakh. IndianExpressOf course this deposit cannot cover the damages as in the present case or it would have to be set so high that it effectively rules out any demonstration whatsoever. But the charging of deposit will underline the fact that organizers are responsible for the law and order.
Another version
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/aug/130812-mumbai-It-was-a-case-of-misidentification.htm
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/aug/110812-Azad-Maidan-protest-turns-violent.htm
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/aug/120812-Mob-rages-in-Azad-Maidan.htm
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/aug/130812-mumbai-Angry-Bangladeshi-immigrants-were-provoked-by-leader.htm
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/aug/140812-Mumbais-most-wanted.htm
Quoting Mahatma Gandhi, Patnaik added, "Non-violence is a weapon of the brave."
Known as a no-nonsense man, Patnaik said he was the deputy commissioner of police, zone 7 (Bandra), during the 1992 riots and had seen the repercussions of a protest going out of hand.
"On Saturday, I took a risk and went on stage. Even I was pelted with stones, but I appealed to the seniors in the crowd and reminded them of 1992," he said, adding that had there been an all-out assault by the police, the matters would have further escalated.
Patnaik claimed that before firing at the crowd, the police, as per rule, used tear gas, then hit them with lathis and also fired with rubber bullets.
When questioned about him shouting at Ravindra Shisve, deputy commissioner of police, zone 1, Patnaik said, "I am the head of the family and I can shout at my boys to train them. It was not personal."http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Mumbai/I-didn-t-want-a-repeat-of-1992-riots/Article1-913313.aspx
Crowd psychology
Herd behavior
2011 UK riots
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-riots-mindless-rioting-highlights-146714
http://croydon.greenparty.org.uk/news/what-we-are-seeing-here-is-mindless-vandalism.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/vox-pop-riots
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/19/riots-psychology-crowds
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100100708/the-moral-decay-of-our-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/
Observations by Edward Glaeser
1. Riots are more common in democracies.
2. The sheer size of crowd can be a 'tipping point': More the people involved, less seems the risk of getting arrested.
3."Most strangely, riots can follow an event that creates a combination of anger and the shared perception that others will be rioting."
4...there has never been much of a link between unrest and either inequality or poverty. In fact, the riots of the 1960s were actually slightly more common in cities that had more government spending. Riots were significantly less common in the South, where the Jim Crow laws were making their long overdue exit. This isn’t to say that many people involved in riots don’t have valid grievances, but plenty of people have serious grievances and don’t riot.
5...the outbreaks typically end only when there is enough law enforcement to ensure that such behavior leads to arrests.....Trying to stop a riot with too small a force can often lead to more, not less, bloodshed, because as the riot continues, vigilantes step in and beleaguered policemen can resort to brutality... Light penalties widely applied and serious penalties applied to a few can both deter unlawful behavior. .. But in the case of riots, it is awfully hard to actually prove wrongdoing and extremely important to clear the streets. Arresting widely and temporarily can be far more effective.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-12/how-riots-start-and-how-they-can-be-stopped-edward-glaeser.html
Twitter/Blackberrys in London Riots
http://world.time.com/2011/08/07/london-riots-a-blast-from-the-past-or-a-glimpse-of-the-future/#ixzz1USSkcYD1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14452097
Handling riots in Gujarat --
At the same time, it is evident that many police officers and officials in the Executive Magistracy managed even under those circumstances to implement the codified administrative wisdom detailed in government regulations, and were thus effective in containing the violence and keeping the human casualties and damage to property on as low a scale as possible.
From the 26 police districts and 4 Commissionerates in Gujarat, in 11 districts there was no death due to riots, and the casualties were negligible (less than the toll in the previous communal violence in these places); namely in Amrel, Narmada, Ahwa-Dang, Jamnagar, Navasari, Porbandar Surat Rural, Valsad, Surendranagar, Rajkot Rural and Kutch- Bhuj.
In 5 districts, and in the Commissionerates of Surat and Rajkot there were between 2 and 5 deaths only due to violence. The 5 districts are Bharuch (two deaths due to violence), Junagadh (two), Patan (four), Vadodara Rural (four) and Bhavnagar (two). The Commissionerate of Rajkot city had 4 deaths due to violence.
The position of Surat City is quite unique. The second populous city in Gujarat, reported only seven deaths due to violence though in previous communal disturbances, particularly in the 1992 post-Babri Masjid demolition violence, hundreds of citizens were killed. The commendable performance of Surat City Commissioner (VK Gupta, IPS 1977 batch) and his team is in contrast to 326 killings in Ahmedabad city and thirty two (32) in Vadodara city in mass violence.
It is relevant to note that unlike in areas of major genocidal violent incidents (Naroda Patia and Gulbarg society in Ahmedabad City, Sardarpura in Mehsana district, Kidiad in Sabrakhanta district, Ode village in Anand district, Best Bakery in Vadodara City) where large numbers of Muslims were killed in police firing, in Surat City only 7 people died in riots, while 10 Hindus and 1 Muslim offenders were injured in police action.gujarat-genocide-the-state-law-and-subversion-r-b-sreekumar
------------------------------------------------------------Added on 23rd Oct 2012
Jyoti Punwani - Licence to hit and run
psychology is not an exact science. it is really tragic to see people using psychology when it comes to mob injustice. Can we use the same for gujarat riots? Or the same for Godhra burning.
ReplyDeleteWe are all a mob.The problem comes when the mob has a motive. Who gave these people a motive. Some videos and pictures that were morphed. Next time if a Hindu organization does the same by showing morphed pictures of Hindus in Pakistan and a mob goes on rampage, would people again find the reasoning in pseudo science called psychology.
I am not yet through with the blog. I will of course take up Gujarat (why the riot tally was so different in Surat and Ahmedabad) and also Bombay riots. Understanding something is not the same as justifying it. The 'psychology' that is used to understand is empirical one, not the academic one of Freud (does anyone take him seriously now?) OR jung etc. What is significant in case of Mumbai violence of 11th Aug is the understanding shown by CP Arup Patnaik. Things could have spiralled out of control and police were easily outnumbered (The estimate of crowd varies. Mid-day puts it at around 36,000.)He not only restrained the police, he appealed to the good side of the crowd that was present, so the vast majority of the crowd was not sucked into the mob. About morphed pictures of hindus in Pakistan etc, the whole Ram Janma bhoomi movement was a result of morphed history.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone take Freud seriously? No, cause psychology is not an exact science and its theories never become laws.
ReplyDelete<>
If the same understanding was shown by the bastards in Godhra train burning, the Gujarat riots would have never happened. Muslims riots everywhere and they riot cause this is their religion. Look at France and see the riots happening right now.
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Are you ready to give me a proof of Jesus Christ's historicity ? Do you want me to provide conclusive evidence that Muhammad plagiarized from Judaism, Christianity and polytheist religion of that time.
Are Hindus asking for a temple in Mecca? Muslims got their Pakistan but still they won't let Hindus build a temple at their most sacred place. Are Hindus asking for a temple in Saudi Arabia where you can't even follow your religion?
I believe that Muslim organizations have given another good reason for Hindu organizations to use the same tactic. If Muslims are going to use something happening outside India as an alibi, then Hindus might use it too.
ReplyDelete>>If the same understanding was shown by the bastards in Godhra train burning, the Gujarat riots would have never happened.<<
ReplyDeleteGujarat riots was something that was waiting to happen. Yes, if the muslims had not resorted to stone throwing but just complained to the Station Master about abduction of a girl, there would have been no occasion for some of them to throw burning rag inside the train. I hold every stone thrower responsible for the arson.
But what do we have? A cooked up conspiracy theory.
>>Muslims riots everywhere and they riot cause this is their religion. <<
What is professional trolling about?
Is abhishek s your real name? I thought you were a muslim from the way you were complimenting Islam.
You are raising important issues about faith and historical veracity while dealing with religion. When RJB-BM issue cropped up in 1980s initially I thought if a mosque was built at the location of a temple, muslims should hand over the mosque as a gesture of goodwill, till I learnt about the history of the confrontation. Most hindus are unaware of it.Many muslims are aware of the history of confrontation through urdu media, but are unaware that most hindus are unaware of it. Spread of information and good will which on the whole is not in short supply, will solve the problem.
I came across questions related to JC's historicity in Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita". Ha ha, how you use the word plagiarism.. Did Muhammad claim to be original?He merely claimed to be the last.
Thank you for the Daniel Pipes link. It explained the role played by translation from one language to other in the controversy among others.
ReplyDeleteYour Question is related to polytheism & monotheism. Normally I would have refused to be drawn into this, because my understanding is sparse. But since you write about 4 marriages with polytheism, at least the 4 marriage part will be easier for me to deal with.
I will start with a book 'On Language' by Chomsky. He concludes that human beings have an innate capacity for language and our languages are different from the language that chimpanzees can be taught. So this innate capacity is responsible for the huge variety of languages that we have.
Now to change track, we have innate capacity for family. But are all families in all societies similar? No. In very primitive clans, the role of father is not understood. The family is centered around mother and her children. There is polygamy and polyanry, incest taboos and sacred unions between the tabooed individuals. At our level of development, the predominant family structure is monogamic. What does this say about innate structure of human psyche? Jung wrote an interesting article about 'Marriage as a psychological Relationship'. http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p109g/internal/j_anima.html
What Jung is saying is that the unconscious mind of a male has a feminine complex(structure) which he gives the name of Anima(soul) and similarly the unconscious of a female has a masculine component Animus(spirit), In a marriage there is an interplay between the individuals involved and these complexes. My interest in Jungian psychology is because of my own explorations/interactions with my animus, about which I am preparing a post.
Just as we can ask what is so sacrosanct about monogamy. we can also ask why monotheism and what is so sacrosanct about it.My understanding about this I have compiled in the following - About the self or'I'
http://fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/05/one-in-me-who-is-more-me-than-myself.html
or the 'responsible' person in each of us
http://brainconsciousnessmind.blogspot.in/2012/07/charlie-themba-mathlong-anna-saul.html
http://fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/08/oracle-conscience-responsibility.html
and on monotheism itself
http://fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/06/notes-on-monotheism.html
Lols Saroja. You still believe in the fairy tales of this idiot called Naom Chomsky. How many times he has been proved wrong ?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/books/a-new-book-and-film-about-rare-amazonian-language.html?pagewanted=all
Thanks for the link to Everett's work. I have skimmed through it.I will respond to it later. I am no linguist. I have read Chomsky's "On Language" and also Koehler's "The mentality of Apes". Whatever be the merit of Chomsky's theory, I think innateness of linguistic ability and the difference between Chimpanzees and humans stands. And I want to develop a point about riots and mobs. There is a "tipping point", when things could have gone either way. My sympathies with Arup Patnaik is based on that. Sometimes the most important things are not what happened but what failed to materialize.
DeleteAbout the grammar of innate language or whatever, and Everett's observation about certain features of language being culturally defined and about certain concepts like number being absent in the tribe that he was studying, I think neurobiology will offer more insights. I made my niece a guinea pig when she was a toddler. At the age of 1year and 7 months, she could narrate stories from about 20 books through showing pictures and acting out, could name different shapes (circle, square etc), had concept of numbers, could number upto 5, but she had no concept of colour, though she reacted favourably to yellow and did not like red. Stories where colour played a role were not understood. It was around the age of 3 years, she developed the concept of colour and then learnt to name them. It seems how you name influences how you perceive them.
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